Thursday, October 21, 2010

The Virtue of Virtues

Everyone must answer ALL the following questions: When you are done, I expect one critical level question that propels the discussion forward--remember, this is a live blog Socratic. I want you to be discerning and thoughtful in your responses.

What is your favorite Franklin quotation from his "Autobiography"? (Please cite the quotation in the text and comment on it).
Since Franklin was trying to achieve an ethical, disciplined life, what today constitutes living morally or "right"?
Which virtue on Franklin's list do you think is most important? Why?
Which virtue do you think we need more of? Explain
What virtues does one need to be successful? Happy?

107 comments:

  1. My favorite quote was "I wished to live without committing any fault at any time; I would conquer all that either natural inclination, custom, or company might lead me into." (page 92) I think this quote shows the impossibility of Franklin's goal and also the effort it would take to complete this goal. Every person's perspective of what a "moral" or "right" person today is different. I think that a good person would have at least one of these virtues without having to think about it. But some people have higher and lower standards. I think the most important of his virtues is Sincerity. Majority of his other virtues have more to do about himself then others, and I think it is really important to put others over yourselves in life and to try hard not to hurt others. I think we need more moderation in life. The split between wealth of the US and places like Africa is ridiculous. If we could be more moderate then things wouldn't be so hard for some people. In order to be successful or happy, we need to have a little of all these virtues. Yet we don't need to necessarily be perfect at all of them. One question I had was "Do you need to make mistakes in life to live life to its fullest? Or are we wasting time by making mistakes and learning from them?"

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  2. My favorite quote from the autobiography is "A man being sometimes more generous when he has but a little money than when he has plenty, perhaps through fear of being thought to have but little." This is to keep an appearance that you have a lot as opposed to not having very much.

    Living morally right today is constituted by doing good deeds and charity. Also it is putting others before yourself and trust that everything will be ok.

    The most important virtue is moderation because if one does something bad and it is extreme, it will leave a scar, if it is done in moderation there is a little buffer zone where that person can fix it without getting too deep.

    The virtue that we need more of is tranquility. This is because people freak out about everything and the world would be a lot more peaceful if people just relaxed.

    To be successful, one needs to follow order. This brings organization, and it also helps keep one's mind in order. To be happy one must follow sincerity. If one is sincere to others, others will be sincere to them.

    To truly be happy with following the virtues, does one have to follow each and every one of the virtues?

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  4. My favorite quote from his autobiography is "Industry, Lose no time; be always employed in something useful; cut off all unnecessary actions." Pg. 93 # 6. In my opinion living morally right is doing what you're told to do by your parents or boss or teacher or whomever is in charge and doing what you say you're going to do. Some people say they are going to do all this good stuff and sometimes nothing happens. One example of this that is current are the elections. I don't know which politician to believe anymore because they're all talking game to get you to vote. Another example of living morally right is living by what you believe in. If you believe in something but don't share it with your peers or the world to help someone then what are you living for? I think Industry (#6) is the most important because life may be the longest thing a person does but it can be wasted in a second. I think that living everyday to its fullest is the best thing a person can do to live a good life. I think we need more of Sincerity (#7) because so many people judge others without knowing them and say hurtful things and they don't think about how much they're hurting someone. I think that Industry (#6) can make a person most happy because again you're doing only the things that are important and not wasting time with something useless.

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  5. Robert fulgham, author of "Everything I Know I Learned in Kindergarten" said that life is often complex and changeable; basic values don't have to be complicated-they are simple and relatively lasting. Do we do too much that makes life difficult?

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  6. 1.) My favorite quote is "In crossing the bay, we met with a squall that tore our rotten sails to pieces, prevented our getting into the kill, and drove us upon Long Island." Because of how he uses his language, in a funny way.
    2.) I constitute living morally as living life to it's fullest, not lying to people, or being fake.
    3.)I believe number seven, sincerity is the most important because peoples feelings matter.
    4.) Number 10 is what we need more of, cleanliness, some people do not care about there hygiene and it is gross!
    5.) To be successful people need to have order, so you are not mixing your social life with work and vice versa.

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  7. 1. My favorite quote in the passage was "Humility. Imitate Jesus and Socrates" (93) I like this quote because it is a virtue that almost everyone in high school should work on.
    2. Today, the same exact values that Franklin was trying to portray are applicable and they are all still "right"
    3. Like I said in number one, number 13 was the most important, because it applies to almost every high school student today. Most kids, including myself, are not humble about their accomplishments or gifts.
    4. As was stated before, Humility is needed not only in high school kids but in everyone. No matter how much money or gifts you have, you have no right to brag or put other people down because of them
    5. I think people need to have Order in order to be successful. Most of the time, people with structure in their lives succeed.

    my question is...
    Do you think Franklin over did himself, by trying to complete every virtue to a tee? in other words, should you follow every virtue exactly, or do you think you should just be cognizant of them?

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  8. Katy: A comment about number 6, isn't the point of doing those "useless" things in life what makes life fun? Why would we even do something if its completely useless?

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  9. 1.My favorite quote in his Autobiography is "Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversations." I like this quote because it really gets you thinking about how you talk to people and and to think before you speak.
    2.I constitute living morally as "living life to the fullest" and not acting fake around people and just be myself.
    3. The virtue I think is the most important is number 7,sincerity because I don't want to make people feel bad with hurtful words, because everyone's feelings matter and I want to be treated how I treat others.
    4. I think number 10,Cleanliness is a big thing because I think a lot of people don't take the time to clean themselves and that tells me they really don't care about anything.
    5. I think the virtue that one needs to be successful at is Order because if everything is in place I know I am happy and that I can do other things without worrying about the disorder in my life. I think everyone needs to experience that.

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  10. 1) My favorite quote of Ben Franklin is, "Sincerity. Use no hurtful deceit; think innocently and justly, and, if you speak, speak accordingly." I love this quote because I believe in being kind to all. So it is a virtue I live by.(Pg.93)

    2) Fairness and Love, be fair to everyone and love one another. This constitutes as living morally or "right" today in our world.

    3) Sincerity because being kind is something that makes us human and makes people distinct from others.

    4) Silence because people seem too hurt others with their words and gossip. It does nothing for anyone to gossip so there is no need for it.

    5) To be successful I think you need to be happy so they go hand in hand thats why if you want to be both you have to have tranquility because it makes life easier

    Question: If you lay down the virtues yourself then can you bend them just a little? Are virtues something you want/ need to live by or are they something that makes you who you are as a person?

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  11. My favorite quote from his autobiography would have to be number 11 on his list of virtues, "Tranquility. Be not disturbed at trifles , or at accidents common or unavoidable. It really speaks to me because i am often not upset with small things because i think they are stupid and pointless.
    In todays busy lifestyle i believe it is also important to have a list of virtues that you stand for. A couple that you might put on that list are, do not steal and do not kill other people. Pretty much just anything you think would do harm to others in some kind of way.
    I believe number 4 is most important "Resolution. Resolve to perform what you ought; perform without fail what you resolve." I think it is very important to follow through with whatever you are doing.
    I believe we could use a little bit of number 5 in our lives. we waste so much that we could just give away to people that actually need it. Or we could just save it and use it later. like food for instance there there are a bunch of people that would love the food that we throw away everyday.
    I don't think being happy and successful are always in the same category. I think one you need to be happy i is number 11, but one to be successful might be number 6. But then if you are always doing something you might not always be happy.

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  12. Mrs. Comp: I feel like majority of the time, the actions we are performing are done so that we can make life easier. Somehow in the process we end up making things more difficult. But would life really be as interesting if we went back to simplicity?

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  13. Why do we work to better ourselves?

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  14. Mrs. Comp, I think that we generally do try and do to much. Sometimes the simplest people are also the happiest. You don't need complex rules in order to be happy

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  15. My favorite quote in Ben Franklin's autobiography is "I wished to live without committing any fault at any time." p86. I thought this quote was funny and amazing at the time. It seems like such an unreal goal because no one can be perfect and everyone makes faults. It is also very inspiring that he allowed himself to have such a goal. You can tell he was really unique and disciplined because he had this goal.

    Today we should live morally for ourselves. You don't really hurt other people by living immorally, except in a few cases. Most people live morally to be better than other people, but that isn't what it should be about. You should only live morally to make yourself feel happy and proud of the good things you do. I think Benjamin Franklin lived morally for himself rather than the praise of others.

    I think tranquility is most important these days because everyone gets so stressed over the little things that don't really matter in the long run. It's a waste of time to worry about stuff that will be over soon, or might not even happen. We would be a lot happier as a society if we could all relax about life.

    I think we need more sincerity. If everyone was kind and thoughtful we would have better relationships with the ones around us.

    To be successful, one needs the virtues frugality, industry, order, cleanliness and moderation. To be happy, one needs the values of sincerity, moderation, and tranquility.


    Question: Is it even possible to live by all of these virtues? If not, what virtues do you think it would be okay not to live by, but still stay virtuous?

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  16. 1) My favorite quote from Ben Franklin's autobiography is, "Speak not what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation" (pg.89). I like this quote because if everyone lived by this moral then i feel like the world would be in better harmony.
    2) A lot of the same virtues Franklin was talking about still apply to today's life as living morally. But i guess in some cases today religion could add a couple of morals that were left out in Franklin's virtues.
    3) I think the most important of Franklin's virtues is number 4. Resolution. If everyone followed through with what they committed too and said they were going to do then there would be a lot more happiness going around.
    4) The virtue i think we need more of is the last virtue, humility. Everyone these days has such a big ego and its like thats all they care about. But if people could put that behind them and become more humble then pointless tensions and arrguments could be avoided.
    5) i don't think its a matter of which virtue but if one were to obtain all virtues then there is no doubt that they would be happy.

    A question in my mind is; Could all 13 of these virtues truly be achieved?

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  17. "It was about this time I conceived the bold and arduous project of arriving at moral perfection." (Pg 92) This quote shows what Ben Franklin aspired to do, which was to be perfect. That seems almost impossible to because it is arguable that nobody is perfect.

    I think that all of his virtues are still relevant and still describe living "right" even in modern day.

    I think the most important virtue is moderation because it is very simple yet important virtue. You can work on moderation every day with several different things. Anything is excess quantity is bad so I think this is the most important virtue.

    I think the virtue we need more of is industry. With all the technology we have its also provides more ways to waste your time and not get any work done.

    I think to be successful one needs to have resolution, frugality, and industry so they can be effective and use their time wisely to become successful. To be happy I think one should focus on such virtues such as sincerity and tranquility.

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  18. Can someone really live there life around 13 virtues? And truly be happy?

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  19. My favorite quote comes from page 90 "A man being sometimes more generous when he has little money than when he has plenty, perhaps through fear of being thought to have but little." This quote is very true in the fact that people try to keep up a certain perception of themselves so others think higher of them.

    In todays world living a moral life is very similar to when Franklin was attempting this lifestyle. Moderation is very important now as well as being humble.

    The best virtue I believe is sincerity. If someone isn't sincere there is going to be problems with basic trust and relationships.

    One aspect that is not well represented today is silence, people are always spouting off about anything and everything in the world and I think getting back to Franklin's virtue of silence would help someone live this virtuous lifestyle.

    Tranquility, Order, and Resolution

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  20. Katie P is correct with the not having to think about having one or more of these virtues. If you don't think about it, you don't have to worry about it. Although, what differs a person who voluntarily carries out these virtues with thinking about it, from those who don't think about it but have them? Them meaning the virtues.

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  21. Katie P, I think that making mistakes is a good thing in life and not a waste of time because we in fact do learn from them. Making mistakes makes a person more well rounded in my opinion because if someone is perfect and makes no mistakes then they are more likely to think highly of themselves. It also ties into being humble. Also no one really knows how to live a perfect life. There will always be mistakes. But is there a certain extent that a person reaches where it's extremely hard to not make as many mistakes and change their life because they have already gotten themselves into a deep hole?

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  22. Katie P.: I think useless things are the ones that are spontaneous and you don't plan on them and they are the fun things in life but the fun things in life are not useless. What is the means of having structure?

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  23. Another thing--Franklin attempted to control behavior with reason, thus being the rationalist point of view. do we laways do this or do we just live by impulse, going off a whim, instictual basis to serve our own desires, needs, pleasures

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  24. Mrs Comp, we work to better ourselves because we want to live up to the expectations that are set before us by our peers, family and media. The way our lives are set up is that if we do something more with our lives we will be rewarded. So we have the gut instinct to try to do better.

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  25. My question is... If someone lives by their virtues their whole life will they feel like they have missed out on experiencing other things?

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  26. But Katie P.,,shouldn't you live up to your onw expectations...why better yourself for someone else's pleasure?

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  27. In response to Katy B, I think it depends how people go about with the virtues. If you totally focus your time on the virtues and nothing too much, you won't be completely happy because it is so narrowly focused and it can even develop into an obsession.

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  28. Are there certain virtues for different facets of life? School? Job? Being a parent?

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  29. My favorite quote from Franklin's autobiography is his 6th virtue which says, " Lose No time; be always employed in something useful; cut off all unnecessary actions." I like this quote because if everyone followed this, then everybody would be doing something useful and nobody would do anything thats not useful.

    People looking out for others and not always themselves, and people not committing crimes or doing anything that could harm somebody else is what constitutes living morally today.

    I think that the most important virtue on Franklin's list is the Justice virtue. I think the Justice virtue is the most important because it is true that nobody should hurt anybody else or abuse their rights.

    I think we need more of the tranquility virtue, because people tend to get angry a lot and if everyone was more tranquil, then people would get along better.

    To be successful and happy you need the temperance, silence, order, resolution,industry,justice, moderation, cleanliness, and tranquility.

    Do you think that as time goes on the virtues need to change?

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  30. 1. "Truth, sincerity, and integrity, in dealings between man and man, were of the utmost importance to the felicity of life." pg 28 (not taken from worksheet)
    The way that this quote stands out to me the most is because it is about simple life, and how the honest truth between people if the way to live life.
    2. He believed in a simpler life where a man live a clean and Godly life, where an man was good to him self and his community.
    3.(9) Moderation, Avoid extremes; for bear resenting so much as you think they deserve. I feel that Moderation is the best way to live life due to the fact that when someone or a group of people exceed the needs the world becomes a more hasty and judgmental place.
    4.The world needs more Humility(13), I feel that the world is a very harsh and hurtful place, and if the world could just take a step back and start with a more humble ideas.
    5. Well clearly every one needs to be clean(10) but I feel Sincerity(7) is something that many lack, yet should all have to be successful, and even happy because I feel this goes along with the "Golden Rule".

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  31. Katy B: i think that for me it would be really hard to live my life by these 13 virtues. But some people really do enjoy having their life planned out to every little detail. Some things make some people happy while different things make others happy

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  32. 1. "While my care was employed in guarding against one fault, I was often surprised by another; habit took the advantage of my inattention; inclination was sometimes too strong for reason." I like this quote because this is basically how most people live their everyday lives. We make mistakes and do not realize we make them until we make another mistake. Or in the process of making a mistake, we make another one on accident. Also, everyone has habits, however we hardly ever notice the habits we have because they are a second nature to us. Lastly, inclination, or a preference can be too strong to think about so we forget about the preference of liking and think about something else.
    2. Living the "right" way in society today, would be following the rules given to a society, or rules more or less of your household and school. Living the moral way, could be what you personally believe is right and just in the world and to live by that.
    3.I personally think that the virtue that is most important on Franklin's list is the virtue of Temperance. I believe that self control and the ability to be in control of oneself is important in your life. To say no, to stop doing something like eating when you know you need to, to participate in activities for your benefit, and to be an individual, following what you need and want, not what someone else needs or wants you to do.
    4. I think we need more of the virtue of silence. Talk only when you need to or would benefit those around you, and to avoid gossip, short arguments, or conversations that are not important. We all have conversations of this matter in our life at some point or another, so I think we need more silence.
    5.I personally think that everyone needs at least a little bit of each virtue to be successful and to be happy.

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  33. Liz: I think that structure makes us feel more in control with our lives. Even our government freaks out about anarchy and things like that. Our society is set up in a way that if one small thing goes wrong its like a domino effect and more things tend to go wrong.

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  34. Katy, I don't think there is any point where you can't turn your life around in this sense. As long as you really want to live your life around those 13 virtues and strive to do better at it day by day i don't think there is anything stopping you.

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  35. My favorite quote from the Franklin autobiography is number 7. "Sincerity.Use no hurtful deceit; think innocently and justly, and, if you speak, speak accordingly."(93) This quote explains values that may make people better for themselves and the world. All of Franklin's virtues are the right way to live today. Every single virtue is thought out and explains how to live your life. The virtue that I believe is most important is number 13. Humility. This may be the best virtue because if everyone was humble it would create a balance among people. If everyone was humble one person wouldn't think they were better than another person because of a sport they played or something that they did. The virtue that people need more of is silence. The reason we need silence is that it would stop all the gossip and things that are silly and pointless. If gossip and things of that nature would stop it would end fights between people and possibly more things. Happiness is by far the thing one needs to be successful.

    Can more virtues be added to Franklin's 13? Are there more still to find?

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  36. 1. My favorite quote that Franklin wrote was the second virtue, "Silence. Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation." (pg.93 #2) The reason that I like this virtue is because if we fallowed this guide line in today's society, there would be no such thing as "pointless conversations," and everything would fall into place like it should. By benefiting nothing but others and yourself, there would be such a thing as conservativeness.

    2. It seems as if what he says is morally right, fallows Christan virtues. Such as, "Chastity. Rarely use venery but for health or offspring, never to dullness, weakness, or the injury of your own or another's peace or reputation."(pg. 95 #12) People today still fallow this virtue. I'm sure there isn't near as many as there were then, but this virtue is still practiced to this day.

    3. I think that the most important virtue on Franklin's list is,"Order. Let all your things have their places; let each part of your business have it's time." (pg. 95 #3) I think that this is important because you should let things fall into their place in your life.

    4. I think the virtue that we need more of is sincerity. Why is it that everyone these days says things that they don't mean just to cover up how you really feel? Why can't everyone just be sincere and real?

    5. I think the virtues that one needs to be successful are: Order, resolution, and moderation. There is order in people's lives, but I don't think that theres enough. If we remotely practices resolution, many economic and political problems would be resolved. And there is hardly any moderation left in this world; Clothes, language. grammer...

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  37. 1.) "A man being sometimes more generous when he has but a little money than when he has when he has plenty, perhaps through fear of being thought to have but little."
    (pg 90) some people may think more about giving when when they almost have nothing.
    2.) Actually, Franklin's virtues would apply today just as much as they did when our country was formed. They might sound a little different: mindfulness organization, goals, managing your budget, prioritize, integrity, fairness and so on but they still mean living "right"
    3.) Moderation. I think going to extremes in any area of life can lead to trouble. For your healthy, peace of mind, and progress, balance seems to be the best approach.
    4.) Tranquility, There seem to be so much stress in the world. People would be healthier and happier if they wouldn't worry so much about the little things. their minds would be more clear for other virtues as well.
    5.)Successful Happy
    - order - Temperance
    - resolution - Sincerity
    - frugality - Tranquility
    - Humility
    Actually in BOTH areas, being successful or happy, it would be best to have all of the virtues. Most of them go hand to hand.
    Question: How can we stop worrying so much so we can live happier lives, is this even possible?

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  38. 1. My favorite quote from Benjamin Franklin in his autobiography is on page 93 when he says "Make no expense but to do good to others or yourself; i.e. waste nothing." This quote speaks to me because so often in my life today i waste opportunities and regret it later. This quote tells me to live with out regrets.
    2. Today living morally or correct to me means that you do the right thing when nobody is watching, you also help others resolve problems or just help them in general.
    3. My favorite virtue on Franklin's list is number 2 because it basically says to not make mountains out of mole hills, this meant something to me because so often in my life I find myself doing this for no apparent reason at all.
    4. I personally think the virtue we need more of is number 8,justice, because it basically states the golden rule, treat people how you would like to be treated, but so often in out society people treat people so bad and then automatically expect to be treated like a god.
    5. To be successful I think people need to have resolution because people always plan on doing something but don't follow thorough with it and it can cost them time and sometimes money. But to be happy I think people need to have tranquility because if you don't let things get to you, you are generally very pleased or content with the life you are living because if you let things get to you its just added and unneeded stress.

    Where do you think that people learn these virtues and apply them to their life and how would it effect society if they did apply them to their life?

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  39. Tarah M, I think that the virtues for most should be guidelines. They should be there to help you go about your life but to follow them exactly and getting them perfect would cause someone to miss out on other things.

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  40. I think if you think about it, most of the virtues can be applied to all aspects of life. What kind of ways can you spin the virtues to have them apply to certain parts of life i.e. school, occupations, socially...

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  41. Mrs. Comp: My dad always told me to do what makes me happy and not what makes others. He personally told me if I'm happy I can make others happy too especially him. What is the big deal about happiness? It's just another emotion, right?

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  42. Mrs Comp, we live up to others expectations because it makes us feel better about ourselves in the long run. If other people are happy it tends to make you happy too. Happiness is contagious.

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  43. I would have to agree with my buddy Alec. There is always time to turn your life around and make yourself a better person.

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  44. In Franklin's autobiography, I liked when he said "And like him who, having a garden to weed, does not attempt to eradicate all the bad herbs at once, which would exceed his reach and his strength, but works on one of the beds at a time...till in the end, by a number of courses, I should be happy in viewing a clean book..."(page 94). This quote stood out to me because it is important to set realistic goals and to take them on one step at a time. It is also important to enjoy the feeling of completing all the steps and eventually reach your goal.

    In today's world,living a moral life means being true and honest to yourself and to respect others.

    The most important virtue on Franklin's list is number 11, which states "Tranquility. Be not disturbed at trifles, or at accidents common or unavoidable." I think this is an important virtue because there are certain things in life that we must accept and live a more peaceful, relaxed life.

    I think we need more temperance because in almost any situation too much of a good thing is a bad thing. Balance is key to maintaining a healthy, happy lifestyle.

    All of the virtues play a role in being successful, however one of the most important one would be resolution because you should always follow through with what you do and believe in what you say in all aspects of your life. To be happy, tranquility and sincerity are necessary virtues that can assure someone peace.

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  45. My questions is: As times and social acceptance change, shouldn't also the virtues of ones lifestyle change?

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  46. About Tarah's question if you choose to live your life buy virtues that you have set for your life then how could you be missing out on something??

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  47. My answer to katie P.'s question "Do you need to make mistakes in life to live life to its fullest? Or are we wasting time by making mistakes and learning from them?" is that yes, we do need to make mistakes. I think that it is what makes us human. I can think of a lot of amazing experience I have had because I made a mistake or was imperfect. If we all lived in perfection, we would not even know it. You have to make mistakes and do things wrong to know when you are doing things right. It's like how you have to be sick sometimes in your life, so you know how good it feels to be healthy when you are.

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  48. Alec-to answer your question...I think Franklin was a very ambitious man. today, i think it woudl be virtually impossible to "achieve" these virtues. I think most of us only do some really well, and then we work at it. I think you waste those great little moments and miss out on what is spontaneous if you try to live a life of perfection. It is human nature to make mistakes/sin, what have you. But, life is more fun, if we strive to be good, but still enjoy it!

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  49. Mitch B is correct. If somebody wants to become a better person, they can be. They can do it if they have the will to and the time in which they can always have

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  50. In Ben Franklin's autobiography he says, "I wished to live without committing any fault at any time; I would conquer all that either natural inclination, custom, or company might lead me into."(page 2) I thought that this was a a very inspirational quote because I think it takes a very dedicated person to go through life trying to perfect himself instead of taking the easy way out and just living the way that was easiest.

    Today what constitutes living morally means that you only act in a way that you would not be ashamed of. "If the actions in your life were printed in the newspaper, would you be ashamed to have anyone read it?" This is a quote that my grandpa always says that makes people really think about the decisions they make. If people can answer that question and say no that they would not be ashamed I think that they could be considered to be living "morally".

    I think that the most important virtue on Franklin's list is 11. Tranquility. Be not disturbed at trifles, or at accidents common or unavoidable. This is most important to me because I think that people sometimes do overreact over things that happen but if they really took a step back and looked at what was really important in life, they would see that its not as devastating as they make it out to be.

    I think the virtue we need more of is 4. Resolution. Resolve to perform what you ought; perform without fail what you resolve. We need more of this virtue because I think in our day in age, a lot of the time people want to do something that is right, but they never follow through with it. If people did follow through with the decisions they make in their head I think as a result of their actions it would make other things in life better for people other than themselves.

    I think that the virtues that one needs in order to be happy or successful in all aspects of their life is industry, sincerity and tranquility. This is because I think that once you have mastered those, you only focus on what matters the most in your life and you have support of others.

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  51. Katie P., i agree with the domino effect thought but my question is does it have to be like that? When one thing goes wrong does there have to be a domino effect meaning other things go wrong too? Or is it possible for a group of people to have some composure and be able to bounce back from a mistake or wrong doing?

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  52. I agree with Katy B. If you have certain goals set for your life I don't think you would miss out on anything

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  53. Erin, I think it depends on the person.Some people worry about everything and may not ever achieve happiness since they can never get to where they want to be. Others don't worry and live their life the way they want it.

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  54. My question: Is moral perfection too great of a goal? Is it ever reachable?

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  55. dear Zach: I think that virtues and morals are still relevant and shouldn't change even as times change because morals don't usually change with time.

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  56. Finlay: I do think that as time goes on these virtues need to change because having character is an ongoing process and there is always more to learn.

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  57. Alexa I totally agree with you! I feel like our not living your life if you do everything perfectly. So why do people try to perfect themselves?

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  58. Responds to Liz Edwards- I do think that you virtues can be bent because they are not a set group of rules, but to have them as guided lines for one to live a happy life.

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  59. Katy B- If you follow your virtues to extensively I think it could take a toll on how you live your life, but as Katy R said I do think you should keep in mind your virtues as you go about your daily life.

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  60. Tom, I think that it would be chaos is people didn't apply some of these values to their lives today. Even if people don't know it, most people follow at least one or two of the virtues. To think if a group of people never followed any of them, the society would be out of control

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  61. Katy B.: I don't think that anyone could live their lives around just 13 virtues. Say we set them, how would we be able should who we truly are as a person? Sure there would be a lot more modesty in country, but know one would be happy because we wouldn't be able to live our lives the way that we would want to.

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  62. Mrs. Comp, I definitely think there are different virtues for each part of life. As a kid or a high school student we are not worried about how to feed our families or how to put our kids in school like parents are. Teenagers virtues to me, are like get good grades, spend time with people you care about, doing onto others as you would want them to do onto you, etc.

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  63. Liz E: But if you make yourself happy and not others, who would you become as a person? Or if your happy, and it makes others happy, what effect does that have on your day or the time you spend with those people? So is happiness more than an emotion if you use it in your everyday life?

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  64. 1) "I wished to live without committing any fault at any time." Page 92. Human beings are not perfect, and Ben Franklin expects himself to reach his high expectations which shows a lot about his character.

    2) Living morally today means different things to different people. When I think of living "right" what comes to mind is respecting my parents and others. Trying to stay positive and not bring others down with the weight of my problems. Trying to show kindness to people even if they have done something that has hurt me. There is a plethora of things that come to mind and it is hard to follow all of them on a daily basis.

    3) The virtue that stands out to me is sincerity. I find that some people are not true to who they are. It bothers me that some people say or act one way to come off a certain way, when really they are just being fake. I admire people that know who they are and don't care what others think of them.

    4) The virtue I think we need more of is humility. I know people who are very proud of what they have accomplished so far in life and although I admire their achievements if they act like they are better than others I tend to think less of them. My dad is very athletically gifted but he never brags about what he can do which makes his talents even more admirable.

    5) I think that a balance of the virtues is what makes a person successful and likable.

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  65. Zach-what a great question--no one has mentioned that obviously we are discussing a text that was inspired by a life that was more simpler back in this age. Your question is very poiganat-do you think virtues change as culture, life and humans progress?

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  66. Why didn't Bailey ask a question???

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  67. I agree with Geordie. the morals will always stay the same. Maybe how we achieve them will change but the main point of his virtues will always remain the same.

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  68. In response to Zach A's question, as the times change, the virtues can be manipulated to go with the time, but when you boil it down, they will all be essentially the same virtues.

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  69. There is one quote in the reading that put me to wondering how I should live my life through the knowledge of Franklin's virtues. "It was about this time I conceived the bold and arduous project of arriving at moral perfection."(pg.92) I hope that one day I have this realization of life and follow it to the end no matter what gets in the way. What constitutes living morally "right" is doing the right thing at the right time to the best of one's ability. My favorite virtue is the virtue telling all to live like the greatest morally intelligent individual with one of the most intelligent man of all time. "13) Humility. Imitate Jesus and Socrates." I think this is the best of the virtues because you can not go wrong being like Jesus, the king of kings, and Socrates, probably the smartest philosopher of all time. As stated above I think everyone should push to be the best they can be with the short or long amount of time each of us is given to live. If one were to follow any of these virtues they would be successful but one that sticks out to me is 13 and the Frugality one about doing good not only to others but to yourself because I feel like success is gained through building great connections with people so you can build each other up to your greatest potential and live with happiness.

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  70. My personal favorite quote from the text was probably "I was dirty from my journey. My pockets were stuffed out with shirts and stockings, and I knew no soul nor where to look for lodging." This quote to me is an example on how you can start out with very little and come out with so much in the long run, as Benjamin Franklin had when he entered America.
    Today it seems that living is standing up for what you think is right, and that with a few steps of guidance its possible to go almost anywhere in life. It seems like a hit or miss opportunity to me.
    To me the most important virtue is number eleven "Tranquility. Be not disturbed at trifles, or at accidents common or unavoidable." There are things that are unnecessarily disturbing to eyes of people, while they should not be. Showing disturbance towards something will just make the situation worse (of course, it depends on what the situation even is in the first place.)
    I feel that we as people need more of number five "Frugality. Make no expense but to do good to others or yourself." Some parts of society may only care about others, and some may only care about themselves. Despite that a lot of the country is doing fine with this, there are several out there who are having some sort of trouble with this unfortunately. However this is only my opinion, as others may think of this virtue differently.
    I see these virtues to be the ones that everyone needs to be successful, and happy with life:
    Order
    Frugality
    Sincerity
    Moderation
    Tranquility.

    A question I had, was "How can everyone be able to apply the virtues to live a happy and successful life due to that we are all different in some way or another"

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  71. Isn't life more about lending a helping hand then it is giving people happiness because kindness brings happiness?

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  72. Responds to Ashley M's responds to Liz E- Can one be happy if no one else is around them?

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  73. 1. "I wished to live without committing any fault at any time; I would conquer all that either natural inclination, custom, or company might lead me into. As I knew, or thought I knew, what was right and wrong, I did not see why i might not always do the one and avoid the other. But I soon found I had undertaken a task of more difficulty than I had imagined." (92, second paragraph)
    This quote stood out to me the most because taking on a task like that would be very difficult. Never would I think that always doing the right thing would be easy. It seems easy but it surely isn't. It isn't impossible though. I admire him for setting a goal so high and not giving up until he reaches it. If we all had the mind set to reach something and not give up on it,no matter what, imagine how far in life we would get.
    2. Living morally right is different for each person. Each person believes in different things and sees different things as values. A lot of people use religion to help guide them for what is morally acceptable and what isn't. For me living morally right is by doing what I think is acceptable and not the person next me. Also, accepting values and staying true to who I am.
    3. I think that virtue number 11 is the most important because if you cannot change something why get upset about it. The things that happen in everyday life aren't going to change because you cry about them. You need to accept it and move on. I also think it's the most important because everyone can relate to it in some way.
    4. I think we need more of virtue 7 because not everyone always thinks before they speak. Also, we aren't always aware of others feelings.
    5. To be happy and successful I think one needs to have virtue 1, temperance. When you have balance in your life it makes things easier. it may not be balanced in every aspect or all the time but if you have some sort of balance life will be a lot easier.

    Question:
    When is it okay to give up on your goals, no matter how hard things become?

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  74. Alec, I feel like no matter how much we try, our actions will always have some effect on something or someone. Unless you are a unknown person who lives in a cave in the middle of no where...But that doesn't happen very often.

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  75. Shea- This is response to your answer to four!! People like to cover up how the really feel because the are afraid to what people might think of them and I totally agree with you on this and yes I do it sometimes too (I think everyone does) but some people do it all the time so when you think you know them, do you really or is it just full of lies/cover ups?

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  76. Many people feel that they HAVE to constantly work to be better--is it enough to just be happy for YOU, not for anyone else...?

    DO WE WANT FOR TOO MUCH?

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  77. Liz E. That kind of goes along with the virtue about sincerity.

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  78. May favorite quote is "Humility. Imitate Jesus and Socrates" (p.93). This quote is telling us to be humble and to try to follow Jesus who was perfect and Socrates.Today when living morally or right you need to do what is right and good. The reason people don't always do this is because it is very hard. Franklin said "As i knew or thought I knew , what was right and wrong, i did not see why I might not always do the one and avoid the other. But I soon found I had undertaken a task of more difficulty then I had imagined." (p.92). Another one of Franklin's quotes on his list that I thought to be most important was "Silence. Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation". I think this is so important because it resembles the rule of if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. This is one of the most important rules i have ever learned in my life and i didn't even know it came from Ben Franklin. The virtue I think we need more of is sincerity. People are always doing and saying bad things to others and I think everyone could avoid this. The virtue I think you need to follow most to be successful and happy is the humility one. If you are humble then it makes it easier to be good in everything else. This will lead to happiness.

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  79. Liz if someone helps you doesn't that make you happy?

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  80. Geordie: I agree that when he decided to aim for moral perfection that this goal is nearly impossible. Does he ever reach his goal, do you think?

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  81. My question is does one have to live by ANY of these virtues too be happy? Can there be other ways to live morally than just these 13?

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  82. For Rachel's question... I believe perfection is attainable. You have to start small and build up. You cant just decide that your gonna be perfect one day and have it happen. Yes we'll always make mistakes but if you keep trying and getting farther than you did last time, and learn from your mistakes you'll be a better person because of it

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  83. My favorite quote from the autobiography is; "I wished to live without committing to any fault at any time" (86). What I got out of this quote was that he wanted to live a life with no regret. This quote is important to me because I try my best to live by that motto and that is how I hope to live my life by.

    Today to live a "right" and prosperous life is very different than it was in the past. To me I feel like there is no right answer and that is solely depends on what a person think is right. However, there is definitely a line which is the law. Without the law there would be mass chaos and there would not be any morale values.

    The most important virtue out of Ben Franklin's list is Justice. Justice to me is what keeps a society stable because it prevents people from getting away with things. So again without justice there would be no morale values.

    I may interpret this virtue differently but I believe we as a society need to gain more sincerity. To me that means being more honest and truthful. Today I feel like that our society tends to point the finger at scapegoats instead of taking the blame.



    Didnt Finish! sorry

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  84. Rachel W. I think moral perfection is completely unreachable, unless you tweak the definition of moral perfection. Which someone should do if it makes them happy:)

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  85. My favorite quote of this autobiography is "I wished to live without committing any fault at any time"(pg 92) because I have mixed feelings on this quote. People can go through life and not specificly abide by "the books" and still be a good person. Everyone at some point in their life will make a mistake or do something wrong. No person is perfect. It is actually a good thing (i think) to make mistakes because you realize that you did something wrong and that goes along with the virtue of temperance. i think it is impossible to go through life and not commit any fault. My opinion of living "right" is being able to be your own person and not committing any crimes really or getting into trouble. Our society has many different opinions on what they feel is the "right or "wrong" thing to do.I think the best virtue is tranquility because witout being a peaceful person, you are a person filled with many different emotions and having those emotions built up inside of you can really effect the person you are. War for example is a part of tranquility and that is because different people and different countries feel like they have to be the most powerful country and they have to control everything. Why do we always have to be filled with emotions and have hate and anger against people? Why do people always have to prove that they are better than someone else? Thats not being tranquil. Everyone lives by different virtues and I think that no one can really be happy unless they find their true self and find who they really are by searching those virtues.

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  86. Well Drew, happiness what ever makes you happy. It is different to every person. For instance, my family and friends makes me happy. Sports make some people happy.

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  87. - "Tranquility. Be not disturbed at trifles, or at accidents common or unavoidable." I love this one; this virtue, if properly done, would let you live the moment, freely and unhindered by common scruples.
    - That's one of the underlining issues between societies; every single person has a different idea of what morality is. I don't believe that being moral is simply a 'I tried to do the right thing' kind of deal. For me being moral, is the actual act (or aftermath) of the choice between right and wrong.
    - "Justice. Wrong none by doing injuries, or omitting the benefits that are your duty." That is probably the most important value. If everyone followed that one value think about how different the world would be.
    - "Silence. Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation." If the world doesn't need this sort of discipline this High School definitely does!
    - "Order. Let all you things have their places; let each part of you business have its time." To be happy, I believe you have to be able to slow down and let things happen. If you are always focused on the future, then you Will miss things, and you Will regret. Unfortunately we usually realize this truth after loosing something important.

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  88. How does anyone really decide what a virtue is? Everyone has their own opinions so who is to decide what is living "morally"?

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  89. Katie, Agreed but wouldn't it make sense that if people lived by these virtues then what someone else says or does shouldn't effect anyone? Isn't that part of the virtues?

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  90. Liz E.:I agree with you. Life is about lending a helping hand, and show our peers (younger) to choose the right path. We are leaders. I know that kindness has lead me to be happy. What if there was people out there that didn't lend a helping hand? What would our society be like?

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  91. Mrs. Comp: I agree with your response to Alec because if you ask people what their one wish was for their life there are bound to be people to say they wish they could live without regrets. In society today you can see people seizing every opportunity they get such as in the show the Buried Life they take risks to live without regrets so they won't be able to ask what if...

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  92. Stella, I don't think it is ever okay to give up on your goals. If you give on your goals, what do you have to live for?

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  93. If we were to live by these virtues on a daily basis could we potentially eradicate all bad habits and behavior, or would the society become total chaos overtime, even though we live with a little of these virtues on a daily basis?

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  94. I think katies question is a very good question. I feel to live life to the fullest we have to make mistakes and learn from them. If everyone was perfect then how would we know how to live life to the fullest?

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  95. Bailey I agree. No one can say what what is living morally unless it's about themselves. Each of us see different things as virtues and all of us see different things as morally acceptable.

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  96. Alexa- I think that to some extent, we can learn from others mistakes, but in order to really learn our lessons, we have to make our own mistakes and suffer the consequences. By fallowing the moral code, however, you will naturally make less mistakes.

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  97. Does having good virtues even lead to being successful and happy?

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  98. Well Katie I don't think you have to live by any of these virtues to be happy but they are just a good guidline.

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  99. Lance- I think that following good virtues may not make you successful but they will help you make a decision when you encounter a situation and you need to choose from what is right and what is wrong.

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  100. Mitch- I agree with you that different things make different people happy. However I also think our society should try to focus on the little things in life because that is what makes life worth living.

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  101. Part 2

    In oder to achieve a "happy" life I believe people need to have the virtue of order. Order provides stability and gets you priorities straight. If you can maintain this I believe you can achieve a successful life, but there are plenty of other aspects that contribute to a "happy" lifestyle.

    My question to everyone is besides Ben Franklin's virtues what are some other things that could contribute to a happy life?

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  102. My answer to Tom's question is that I believe people find these virtues through their mistakes. After they learn from their mistakes they then apply them to their lives

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  103. Stella- I agree with your comment about, that in order to live life to the fullest, we have to make mistakes and learn from them, and that if we were perfect how would we know how to live life to the fullest. However, do you think that it is possible for someone to not make mistakes and still live life to the fullest such as say someone that had cancer or those born innocent and only given a short amount of time to live?

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  104. Trail- Yes, I think you could still be happy if no one else around you was. Happiness is a state of mind. I think that people are responsible for their own happiness and don't need others to around them to make them happy. Are you content when you listen to music by yourself or around others? Or maybe you had a good day, but a friend didn't. Would you let your own happiness go away because someone else wasn't happy? What is your source of happiness? So, yes I think people can be happy when those around them are not.

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  105. Madison-- I would have to agree with what you said, having order in life definetly provides a narrow road for people to follow because without order the road can get pretty foggy and you find yourself not knowing what to do.

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  106. Going off what Lance said about virtues leading to happiness. I think life is what you make it regardless of the virtues you live by. Maybe the virtues are seen differenty by everybody.

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